Curse

Str0b0 · Apr 10, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I know there are energy mods all over the place in the game but then again there are health mods all over the place too. Why not have runes of energy just like runes of vigor? It would make some interesting class combinations much more viable for play.

Winterclaw · Apr 10, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Since my main is a warrior prime, I'd prefer a rune of + energy regen, but extra energy would be good too.

Str0b0 · Apr 10, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Well I thought about that but it would be insanely overpowered if you followed a pretty standard formula of 1pip for minor, 2 pips for major and 3 pips for superior. So I figured just more energy would be better for balance.

Winterclaw · Apr 10, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Why do you have to follow the standard formula? Make it one pip as a superior. Same goes for health too. To keep it balanced you can have either/or. Either you have more energy/life or faster recovery.

Str0b0 · Apr 10, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Mostly because it is easier to conform to the game mechanics already in play rather than create new ones. There would have to be minor, major and superior runes of energy to conform to the drop tables already inplace. So if there are three categories of runes then they should have varying degrees of power. Putting one pip of regen on all three would negate the point of having major and superior runes. Nah I think it should follow pretty much the same pattern as Vigors.

LoneWolfWinter · Apr 10, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

While anet are at it, they should add a 'kill the other team' skill, and perhaps armor that makes you invincible no matter what attack anyone uses.

Adding runes that give extra energy regen would create such incredibly ridiculous balance issues it isn't even funny. Even adding runes to give extra energy strikes me as doing little more than trying to make the game overly easy for those who can't get a grip on the concept of energy management. It seems like an attempt to 'noobify' the game to me.

Str0b0 · Apr 10, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

I disagree. I think it is simply a logical step. By your rationale runes of vigor "noobify" the game by giving people who can't grasp healing or aggro management a leg up. I'm not advocating energy regen on runes. Like I said that would be too powerful but I see no problem with +25, +41, or +50 energy or even a lesser progression. If you have runes to increase health then why not have runes to enhance your other character resource?

Dougal Kronik · Apr 10, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

/signed

I think a scale of 5 (Minor),10(Major, and 15 (Superior)would probably work.

Str0b0 · Apr 10, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Agreed on the scale. That's a good refinement and thank you for the constructive input. Considering the highest staff and offhand mod I've ever seen is twelve I think that a superior set at 15 would be ideal.

LoneWolfWinter · Apr 10, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I disagree. I think it is simply a logical step. By your rationale runes of vigor "noobify" the game by giving people who can't grasp healing or aggro management a leg up. I'm not advocating energy regen on runes. Like I said that would be too powerful but I see no problem with +25, +41, or +50 energy or even a lesser progression. If you have runes to increase health then why not have runes to enhance your other character resource?

Small little boosts to health is one thing (morons who can't understand agro in PvE die regardless of vigor runes), to give GIGANTIC boosts to energy that would entirely change all thoughts on energy management like you're suggesting is entirely another. I mean, +50 energy boost? Who are you trying to kid here?

edit: even with a smaller scale, a +15 boost of energy is gigantic. Right now the GOOD PvP monks are rewarded for understanding the rigors of energy management, and countering energy denial, knowing exactly what they must do to keep their energy reserves up. Even a 'tiny' (laugh) boost by adding energy runes as you're proposing would give such an incredible edge to noobs it isn't even funny. Theres no reason to dumb the game down for people who can't understand things. Rewarding people for sucking with a lowest-common-denominator type system is entirely backwards and illogical.

Str0b0 · Apr 10, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Ok so there should be health boosting runes but no energy boosting runes. I'm sorry that makes no sense at all. 15 energy is NOT a huge boost. I can blow 10 in one spell. But if you insist that having the energy to cast ONE more spell would completely unbalance the game well that's your right. I don't think I'll be able to change your mind but that doesn't stop me from regarding your point of view as absolutely ludicrous.

lishi · Apr 10, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

balance guys

the rune of superior vigor give to EVER class 50 hp , since ever class have 480 hp at lev 20 is 10,41% more hp for ever class.

lets make the rune of energy
2 for minor
4 for major
6 for superior

for a elementalist will be almost useless

for a caster decent

for a ranger good

for a warrior , the word is unbalaced ...

it can work if give 10% of your base energy pool but still its not worth it

cajun · Apr 10, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Yes, I agree. I think energy runes would be nice. The elite skill Energy Drain will give a mesmer + 16 energy. I can see how haveing a +15 energy rune could unbalance the game if you put it on a warrior or ranger. I would recommend that you make it where it could only go on caster classes. Just like the rune of absorbtion can only be put on a warrior. Rangers with 45 energy could be very overpowered though.

LoneWolfWinter · Apr 10, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Ok so there should be health boosting runes but no energy boosting runes. I'm sorry that makes no sense at all. 15 energy is NOT a huge boost. I can blow 10 in one spell. But if you insist that having the energy to cast ONE more spell would completely unbalance the game well that's your right. I don't think I'll be able to change your mind but that doesn't stop me from regarding your point of view as absolutely ludicrous.

Have you EVER played PvP as a monk? Getting 5 extra energy at the right time can be absolutely critical to whether or not your team dies or survives.

Jessyi · Apr 11, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Nobody here should be arguing with LoneWolfWinter.

I mean...a +15 boost to energy? I can't even take that seriously enough to argue it...

Just no...no no no...no.

edit: you know what? I will argue it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Ok so there should be health boosting runes but no energy boosting runes. I'm sorry that makes no sense at all. 15 energy is NOT a huge boost. I can blow 10 in one spell. But if you insist that having the energy to cast ONE more spell would completely unbalance the game well that's your right. I don't think I'll be able to change your mind but that doesn't stop me from regarding your point of view as absolutely ludicrous.

The game was designed with the vigor runes as being a necessity in PvP. Woe betide the fool who didn't equip them. The game however was NOT designed to allow large scaling differences in the energy pool in either PvE OR PvP. +15 energy might be one more cast for an elementalist...or three more warrior energy skills...or seven more ranger attacks...etc.

And that my friend, IS imbalanced.

-Jessyi

Killsmith · Apr 11, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

I thought energy management was about using energy at a slower rate than it regenerates. If that is in fact correct, then adding some (6, not 15) energy to your maximum merely allows you to use one or two more skills initially and then it has little or no effect unless you have the luxury of waiting around so your energy can fill all the way back up.

To tell you the truth though, I think vigor runes were an afterthought. You have 5 pieces of armor that will take runes, and even if you used a rune for every attribute that you could, you still have one piece of armor that doesn't have a rune. Since the good runes take away health, why not add a rune that gives a little of it back? That's why I think we have vigor runes.

Nevin · Apr 11, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

It should work like this.

Minor - Increases Energy by 3%, Decrease Max Health by 3%
Major - Increases Energy by 6%, Decrease Max Health by 6%
Superior - Increase Energy by 10%, Decrease Max Health by 10%

Winterclaw · Apr 11, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

As I see it anyone can use an offhand that boosts his energy by 12 points... if he has 9 points or so in the right skill.

So it should probably be less than 12. I say about 4, 7, 10 or 4, 6, 8 would be a good range.

Savio · Apr 11, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Flaming and nonlogical arguments will not be tolerated. Discuss this nicely.

nugzta · Apr 11, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

I always think that vigor runes exist because its to counter HP penalty from major and superior runes. Note that majors and superiors only penalise HP not energy.